Reply – Re: வஞ்சகன்--கண்ணனா, கர்ணனா?
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Re: வஞ்சகன்--கண்ணனா, கர்ணனா?
— by விஜையன் விஜையன்
VIJAYA vs GANDIVA
I have seen some frustrated Arjuna fans who couldn't digest the fact that Karna was far superior to unskilled Arjuna in archery. So, now they have changed the topic and are futilely trying to prove that Arjuna's bow was superior to Karna's bow, and so Arjuna was better than Karna. LOL What a logic! Anyway, most importantly their theory is based upon a statement of Draupadi who had ZERO knowledge about weapons. So let's again use dear Mahanalayak Arjuna fans for our timepass.
THIS THREAD IS DIVIDED AS
A) EXPOSING THE FALSE STATEMENT OF DRAUPADI
B) VIJAYA vs GANDIVA
C) FEATURES OF VIJAYA AND GANDIVA
D) KARNA vs ARJUNA WITH/WITHOUT CELESTIAL BOWS
________________________________________________________________________________­_____
● PART-1: EXPOSING THE FALSE STATEMENT OF DRAUPADI
[Draupadi told Krishna]
"Fie on that Gandiva which none else can string save Arjuna and Bhima and thyself, O slayer of Madhu!"
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­m03/m03012.htm
POINT-1: In the first place, Draupadi was a woman who had virtually no knowledge about weapons (In those days women were not admitted in military, so how could they have knowledge about weapons?) So, Draupadi's statement can't be taken seriously.
POINT-2: Draupadi gave this statement after the dyuta-sabha. Karna had already exposed her character in open court. So how can it be expected that she would even slightly praise Karna? Obviously she would praise her own husbands (Bhima, Arjuna etc.) just like every other wife in the world.
POINT-3: As per Draupadi, only three warriors can string Gandiva - Krishna, Bhima and Arjuna (actually Arjuna was not skilled enough to string Gandiva). So obviously the warriors who were superior to Arjuna and Bhima could have strung Gandiva.
List of warriors who were superior to Arjuna and Bhima:-
A) Karna
B) Bhishma
C) Lord Parashurama
D) Lord Balarama
E) Drona
F) Bhagadatta
G) Elephant of Bhagdatta named Supratika (animal)
H) Valiant Dwarka robbers
I) Saindhava foot-soldiers
J) Many others
All the warriors mentioned above were superior to Bhima and Arjuna, and they used these two brothers for their battle-practice. Even the elephant of Bhagadatta (animal) should have been able to wield Gandiva because he had defeated a wielder of Gandiva (Bhima). What more to say?
POINT-4 : During interpolated virat war, Kid Uttara climbed up tree and brought Gandiva along with 4 bows easily. ROLF. Kid uttar held gandiva along with other 4 bow and alighted from tree like superman. It proves that even kid like Uttar used to play with toy Gandiva
"Vaisampayana said, 'Thus addressed by Partha, Virata's son, decked in ear-rings, alighted from the car, and CLIMBED UP that Sami tree reluctantly. And staying on the car, Dhananjaya, that slayer of enemies, said, unto him, 'Speedily bring thou down those bows from the top of the tree. And cutting off their wrappings first and then the ropes with which they were tied, the prince beheld the GANDIVA there along with four other bows.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04041.htm
Vaisampayana continued, 'Hearing these words of Arjuna, Uttara cast off all inactivity. And he speedily ALIGHTED FROM THE TREE bringing with him ARJUNA'S WEAPON
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04045.htm
POINT-5 : Lord Krishna himself exposed poor Arjuna as arjun was NOT CAPABLE to lift gandiva with his left hand
[ Krishna to Arjuna]
By me have all these been already slain. Be only (my) instrument. O thou that can'st draw the bow with even the left hand.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m06/m06035.htm
POINT-6 : Rukmi too obtained a celestial bow named 'Vijaya' from a Kimpurusha Drona (different from the Vijaya bow of Karna) which is described as equal to Gandiva and Sharanga.
Passage-
"And Rukmi was a disciple of that lion among the ‪#‎Kimpurushas‬ who was known by the name of ‪#‎Drona‬. And that mighty-armed warrior had obtained also the bow named Vijaya of celestial workmanship, belonging to the great Indra, and which was EQUAL TO GANDIVA IN ENERGY and to also SARANGA (held by Krishna)."
http://sacred-texts.com/­/hin/m05/m05159.htm
This proves that Rukmi was able to wield and string Gandiva bow because it was equally powerful to his own bow, but Draupadi didn't mention the name of Rukmi in her funny statement. It sanctions the fact that Draupadi's statement about Gandiva was completely inconsistent with reality.
DRAUPADI'S STATEMENT WAS FALSE
--------------------­­-------------------­-­------------------­--­-----------------­---­----
● PART-2: VIJAYA vs GANDIVA
1) KARNA AS THE WIELDER OF VIJAYA BOW
A) KARNA OBTAINED VIJAYA FROM LORD PARASHURAMA WHICH WAS SUPERIOR TO GANDIVA BOW
[Karna told Duryodhana]
"That formidable bow, the gift of Rama, is SUPERIOR TO GANDIVA It was with that bow that the Earth was subjugated thrice seven times (by Bhrigu's son). WITH THAT BOW GIVEN TO ME BY RAMA I will contend in battle with the son of Pandu."
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­m08/m08031.htm
[It proves that Vijaya bow was superior to Gandiva. Because neither Karna was unacquainted with the knowledge of weapons like Draupadi nor was Duryodhana a fool to believe in any false information (Duryodhana already knew about Gandiva's power, so it would be foolish to think that he would agree with any wrong information about Gandiva)]
B) KARNA WAS ABLE TO STRING VIJAYA BOW WITH TERRIFIC SPEED
"Having said these words, the Suta's son of great valour, that hero, taking up his ANCIENT and foremost of bows called VIJAYA, stringed it and rubbed the STRING repeatedly."
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­m08/m08064.htm
[Karna easily strung Vijaya bow which was superior to Gandiva, sanctioning the fact that Gandiva bow was a toy for Karna]
C) SPEED OF KARNA WITH AND WITHOUT VIJAYA BOW
SPEED OF KARNA WITH ORDINARY BOW-
[Terrific speed of Karna confessed by Lord Krishna on the 14th night when Karna was using ordinary bows]
"These wails are being incessantly heard, O Partha, of thy helpless friends who are uttering them, mangled by the shafts of Karna. The manner in which Karna is aiming and letting off his shafts is such that NO INTERVAL can be noticed between the two acts. He will, O Partha, annihilate all our friends."
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­m07/m07170.htm
[Even supreme Lord Krishna failed to notice the speed of shooting of Karna that's too at night when Karna was using an ordinary bow]
SPEED OF KARNA WITH VIJAYA BOW-
No need to say anything. Read the post about the final encounter and the archery practice of Karna on Arjuna.
II) ARJUNA AS WIELDER OF INFERIOR GANDIVA BOW
A) ARJUNA FAILED TO STRING INFERIOR GANDIVA BOW PROPERLY
"Then Arjuna endeavoured to string his large, indestructible, celestial bow with some effort. He succeeded with GREAT DIFFICULTY in stringing it, when the battle had become furious."
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­­m16/m16008.htm
[Over-boastful archer Arjuna was not skilled enough to string Gandiva properly. Arjun failed to string bow properly which was inferior to Vijaya but Karna used superior bow for his archery practice against Arjuna. This again proves that Karna was much superior to Arjuna in archery]
NOTE - Draupadi said that Arjuna was able to string Gandiva, but reality is the opposite. Rukmi was superior to loser Arjuna as he was able to wield equally powerful bow. It again proves Draupadi's statement regarding Gandiva was useless.
B) NERVOUS, TERRIFIED AND FRUSTRATED ARJUNA BROKE HIS OWN BOW-STRING DUE TO LACK OF SKILL
"As the two heroes, O king, struck each other with many foremost of arrows, O king, the sounds caused by the bows, bow-strings, and palms, of both Dhananjaya and Adhiratha's son, became tremendous and their well-sped arrows also caused a deafening whizz. Then the BOW-STRING OF THE SON OF PANDU, stretched with force, BROKE with a loud noise."
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­­m08/m08089.htm
[While Arjuna was fighting with Karna, he FAILED to match the speed of Karna, and while trying to shoot arrows more quickly, broke his own bow-string! No other Maharathi ever did such a mistake at the time of fighting with enemies. It proves that Arjuna didn't know about properly handling of celestial bows]
RESULT -
KARNA WAS ABLE TO WIELD AND STRING BOTH ORDINARY/CELESTIAL BOWS WITH EQUAL EFFICIENCY.
KARNA WAS CAPABLE TO HANDLE BOTH ORDINARY/CELESTIAL BOWS WITH EQUAL EFFICIENCY.
REGARDING ARJUNA, NEITHER ARJUNA WAS SKILLED ENOUGH TO WIELD OR STRING GANDIVA NOR HE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT HANDLING HIS OWN CELESTIAL BOW.
--------------------­­-------------------­-­------------------­--­-----------------­---­----
● PART-3: FEATURES OF VIJAYA AND GANDIVA
Although it's clear like water that Gandiva was inferior to Vijaya just like the differences between their wielders, still some points should be considered here.
A) VIJAYA HAD ONLY ONE INDESTRUCTABLE STRING AND NO ONE SUCCEEDED TO BREAK IT
"BENDING then his own loud-sounding bow of IRREFRAGABLE STRING , Karna shot showers of shafts. The Suta's son destroyed that burning weapon of Arjuna"
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­­m08/m08090.htm
[Vijaya bow had only one string which was indestructible]
B) GANDIVA HAD 100 USELESS STRINGS AS KARNA USED GANDIVA FOR HIS ARCHERY PRACTICE
"Then KARNA, with a number of whetted shafts endued with great energy, CUT OFF the STRING OF ARJUNA'S BOW. Similarly he cut off the SECOND string, and then the THIRD, and then the FOURTH, and then the FIFTH. The SIXTH also was cut off by Vrisha, and then the SEVENTH, then the EIGHTH, then the NINTH, then the TENTH, and then at last the ELEVENTH."
http://sacred-texts.com/hin/­­m08/m08090.htm
[Karna successively cut off 11 strings of Arjuna's celestial bow Gandiva. Arjuna never succeeded in cutting a single string of Karna's Vijaya bow, but Karna cut down 11 strings of Gandiva]
NOTE - It proves that Vijaya had BETTER features as compared to Gandiva. Just like SONY has better features than Samsung. Simply we can say thay "100 SONAR KI 1 LOHAR KI".
RESULT -
FEATURES OF THESE BOWS ALSO PROVES THAT VIJAYA BOW WAS MORE POWERFUL THAN GANDIVA JUST LIKE KARNA WAS MORE POWERFUL THAN ARJUNA.
--------------------­­-------------------­-­------------------­--­-----------------­---­----
● PART-4: PERFORMANCES OF KARNA AND ARJUNA WITH/WITHOUT CELESTIAL BOWS
A) ARJUN WITH ORDINARY BOW
- Defeated old Draupada with the help of his 3 brothers. Karna's young son Vrishasena alone defeated Draupada in Kurukshetra War sanctioning that Vrishasena was superior to Arjuna.
- Was defeated and spared by Karna in Draupadi swayamvar
B) ARJUNA WITH CELESTIAL BOW
- Was defeated by demon Kalakanjas.
- Was defeated by demon Nikumbha and started vomiting blood in the sky.
- Was defeated by Karna on 12th and 16th day at Kurukshetra and rescued by Satyaki. Was defeated and ran away from Karna on 17th day. Inspite of being protected by 3 gods, was almost defeated by Karna in final encounter.
- Was defeated by Drona on 14th day at Kurukshetra and fled twice.
- Failed to kill Jayadratha without help of Krishna.
- Was overpowered by ordinary warriors like Achyutayus, Susharma etc.
- Famous as crooked warrior responsible for unfair deaths of Bhishma, Karna, Bhurisrava and Duryodhana.
- Was defeated by ordinary Saindhava soldiers and was saved by Saptrishis.
- Failed to counter Vaishnavastra, Nagastra, Narayanastra, Bramhastra and was saved by Krishna.
- Was defeated by his own son infact kid Vabruvahana in a single shot of ordinary arrow.
- Was defeated by ordinary Dwarka robbers and misused by them for their bamboo practice. Later palayan from Dwarka with speed 200 KM/HR which later reduced upto 120 KM/HR due to continuous running.
C) KARNA WITH ORDINARY BOW
- Conquered ENTIRE EARTH in all four direction during digvijaya.
- Alone defeated Draupad unlike loser Arjuna who needed support of his brothers.
- Alone defeated Bhagadatta where loser Arjuna failed to defeat Bhagadatta.
- Alone conquered all kings in Bhanumati swayamvar including Shishupala, Rukmi, Jarasandha, Bhishmaka and many others.
- Alone beat Matsya army and Virata on 11th day at Kurukshetra as well as during digvijaya.
- Defeated and spared Bhima, Sahadeva and Nakula on 14th day, 14th night and 16th day respectively.
- On 14th night used Satyaki, Dhristadyumna and many others for his archery practice until they retreated.
- Again vanquished Bhima on 15th day and used Satyaki, Dhristdyumna and many other for archery practice on 16th day.
D) KARNA WITH CELESTIAL BOW
- Defeated Bhima 6 times, Satyaki 5 times, Dhrishtadyumna 8 times, Yudhistira thrice and Arjuna once.
- Slew 1.5 Akshauhini troops in Karna Parva using both ordinary and celestial bows.
- Inspite of Arjuna's being protected by 3 gods, overpowered Arjuna 27 times and almost vanquished him.
RESULT -
ARJUNA HAVE TRACK RECORD OF DEFEATS WITH/WITHOUT USING CELESTIAL BOW WHICH PROVES THAT HE WAS USELESS THOUGH HE HAD ADVANTAGE OF CELESTIAL BOW.
ON THE OTHER HAND, ALMOST 90% OF THE FEATS OF KARNA WERE ACHIEVED WITH ORDINARY BOWS. KARNA USED VIJAYA BECAUSE KARNA WAS THE ONLY MORTAL OF DWAPARA YUGA WAS SKILLED ENOUGH TO HANDLE THIS SUPREME ULTIMATE WEAPON.
______________________________________________________________________________________
■ CONCLUSION :
VIJAYA (KARNA) > GANDIVA (ARJUNA)